why did zola taylor leave the platters

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Please include what you were doing when this page came up and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the bottom of this page. That was the talk of the nation. #5 Pop. I was there in maybe 2000 and I dont remember fake vines anywhere. Zola Taylor died in Riverside, CA at age 69, from pneumonia, following a series of strokes. Mrs. Williams, 59, said she was a model from New York when she met her future husband in Las Vegas in 1957. She attributed the break-up to the Beatles-inspired upheaval of pop music. Released in the summer of 1955, it became the group's first Top Ten hit on the pop charts and topped the R&B charts for seven weeks. As you know, Why Do Fools Fall in Love was loosely based on Frankie Lymons life. In 1984, on behalf of Emira Lymon, a lawyer and artists agent sued to wrest the copyright of Frankies hit song Why Do Fools Fall in Love away from the current owner. She attributed the breakup to the Beatles-inspired upheaval of pop music. Reprise Records, but never approached his success with the Platters. recorded in France while The Platters on tour. were no more hits with Mercury after 1962. It didnt take long before the groups success spawned a rush of imitators. girls. to much of the Platter's catalogue. How Do You Get Rid Of Hiccups In 5 Seconds. Soon, Gunter was replaced by tenor Tony Williams. affair with the thirteen year old Frankie Lymon beginning in 1956 while the Platters and Zola Taylor went in 1962, soon joining another ex-member to perform the hits of the Lymon was 14 years old when he began to date Zola Taylor (Berry), lead singer of the chart-topping group the Platters in the mid-1950s. They also appeared in a Where can I find related materials in connection with Johann Joseph Fuxs The Study of Counterpoint? Zola Taylor said she married Lymon on Oct. Also What happened to Elizabeth Waters Lymon? Those looking to hear the classic lineup of songs had their pick of approved, disputed, and substituted Platters, including Sonny Turner's, Zola Taylor's, Ritchie Jones' (member 198485), Milton Bullock's (member 196770), Paul Robi's (managed by his widow), Jean Bennett's "Buck Ram Platters", Monroe Powell's, Herb Reed's, and several other groups with no current ties to the original group. The Platters are Kingsley Cousin Brian McIntosh, The Professor Lance Bernard Bryant, Leslie TEEF Mone, and Omar Scooby Ross. Taylor left the Platters when the group disbanded in the early 60s. Advice for figuring out unusual rhythms when composing, Chord Leading. All Rights Reserved. In 1974 the And while it may seem hard to believe that this boyish looking man was married to three women at the same time, it was the 1980s court case that later inspired former Days of Our Lives actress, Tina Andrews, to write the screenplay. January 13, 2022Sonny Turner / Date of death, 82years (19392022)Sonny Turner / Age at death. She had no children. Publicity Listings number of movie films among them The Girl Can't Help It and Rock Around The Despite their lack of chart success, The Platters were a profitable touring group, successful enough that the Penguins, coming off their #8 single "Earth Angel", asked Ram to manage them as well. Herb Reed, a founding member of the Platters, said he spotted Ms. Taylor, the sister of Cornell Gunter of the Coasters, rehearsing with an all-female group in 1954. Sonny Turner is the only surviving member of The Platters. The Platters formed in Los Angeles in 1952 and were initially managed by Federal Records A&R man Ralph Bass. By 1954, the group had come to feature Herb Reed, Tony Williams, Zola Taylor, David Lynch, and Paul Robi. Zola Taylor Death: and Cause of Death On April 30, 2007, Zola Taylor died of non-communicable disease. ", In 1966, the Platters signed with Musicor Records. Founding Platters member Herb Reed said he spotted Taylor, the sister of Cornell Gunter of the Coasters, rehearsing with a girl group in 1955 and knew immediately she had the charisma and vocal chops the band needed. Zola Taylor was the only female singer in the Platters between Zola Taylor, who was the first female member of the 1950s group the Platters, a Los Angeles-based quintet that was one of rocks first major R&B; crossover acts, has died. its white cover record for the race in the Top Ten. The band's second manager Ram decided to build the group around Williams's distinctive and versatile voice and his ability to bring life to Ram's songs. then took Personality Productions, Inc. (Bennett's separate management company) corporate records and files and attempted to take the company's phone numbers. Your email address will not be published. After achieving success in her professional career, Zola Taylor quit The Platters. One of the first Elizabeth Lymon says she married Lymon on Jan. 23, 1964, in Alexandria, Va., and bore him a daughter the following year. Why did Zola Taylor leave The Platters? If so, what is it called? It was a great surprise to everyone, Reed said. The quintet scored a Top 5 hit with Only You in 1955. They were replaced by two returning members, Ben E. King and Bill Fredricks. The Platter's next release "The Great Pretender" was issued in November 1955 What can I build into my guitar and use the tone pots buttons to adjust? Fredricks, Lewis, and Price all left in 1983 and were replaced by the returning Johnny Moore, Joe Blunt, and Clyde Brown. Which are the 3 crash tests that determine a safety rating? Taylor was the second of Frankie Lymons three wives. Bennett and Powell later reached an agreement that Powell would be able to tour, but only as "The Platters featuring Monroe Powell". She soon replaced Taylor in the group and married Shortly before Robi succumbed to pancreatic cancer on February 1, 1989, he won a long court battle against Ram's estate and was awarded compensation and the right to use the Platters' name. He still tours and performs around the world. Many had once contained former members who were now retired or deceased. She attributed the breakup to the Beatles-inspired upheaval of pop music. I've lost 25 weeks of work a year.". Tony Williams, a former parking-lot attendant who crooned the 1950s hit songs Only You and The Great Pretender as the lead singer of the Platters, Flamingo. WebMini Bio (1) Zola Taylor was born on March 17, 1938 in Los Angeles, California, USA. Their success also inspired many other African-American groups to add female singers. Tenor sax octave pads: both open or both closed, Meaning of values for MIDI control change event, Choosing a guitar: left handed or right handed, First note of a chord vs bass note of a chord. Zola Taylor, a former member of the teen-age doo-wop group the They were found innocent but many radio stations quit playing their singles, Contemporary Musicians recounted. Taylor was back in the spotlight in 1968, when she and two other women who claimed to be former teenage idol Frankie Lymons widow became embroiled in a bitter legal battle for his royalties. Zola eventually lost the house since Lymon didnt pay the mortgage, who was instructed to do so while she was on tour. She died on April 30, 2007 in Riverside, California. She was an actress, known for Coronacin (2000), Rock All Night (1957) and Why Do Fools Fall in Love (1998). She had no children. The Platters success began to fizzle after 1959, when four members were arrested in a Cincinnati hotel and accused of using drugs and soliciting prostitutes. The Platters, the Flamingos, and other pioneering performers share stories of divided audiences, Jim Crow absurdities and harrowing violence. Reed said Taylor, a contralto, turned out to be a great fit. David Lynch - second tenor Why did Aundrea Fimbres leave Danity Kane? Reed said he had been out of touch with Taylor since the early 1960s. The details of baritone Hodge's departure are muddy; author Peter A. Grendysa, says Ram fired Alex Hodge in October 1954 after having been accused of possession of marijuana. What harmonic idea is being used in Measures 9-12 and 17-19 in Recuerdos De La Alhambra? In 1958 they introduced "Twilight Time" on Dick Clark's American She let him live in her hillside house with instructions to pay bills out of an allowance forwarded to him by her attorney. Mercury refused to issue further Platters releases without Williams on lead vocals, provoking a lawsuit between the label and manager Ram. She attributed the break-up to the Beatles-inspired upheaval of pop music. for promotion and might have been the first music video. She was 69. Why did Tony Williams leave the Platters? The all-male group had just signed with Mercury after its single Only You topped the charts and its manager thought they needed a female voice to soften their sound. Moore left again in late 1982, along with Clyde Brown. their decision. In a dispute over money, Williams left the Platters in 1959 to pursue a solo career, and continued to work with Ram as his manager. She died on April 30, 2007 in Riverside, California, USA. Zola Taylor, who broke gender barriers as the first female member of the 1950s R&B group the Platters and later became entangled in a public soap opera as one At Mercury they became a top vocal group and nightclub act. WebAccording to court documents, the three are Emira Eagle Lymon, 46, a school teacher in Augusta, Ga.; Elizabeth Waters Lymon, 43, of Philadelphia, who said she bore Lymon a Taylor, who had been bedridden after several strokes, died Monday from complications of pneumonia at Parkview Community Hospital One song recorded during their Federal tenure, "Only You (And You Alone)", originally written by Ram[4] for the Ink Spots, was deemed unreleasable by the label,[5] though copies of this early version do exist. Structural Info Facts Filmography Didnt happen. How does singing volume affect vocal range? Find out more about the group behind "The Great Pretender," "Only You," and "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" here in this profile from your Oldies Expert at About.com. Barnes was replaced by Charles "Sonny" Turner who stayed with the group through Drifters (Japanese: , Hepburn: Dorifutzu) is a Japanese manga series written and illustrated by Kouta Hirano. Scandal also may have played a part: The four men in the Platters were arrested on sex charges in Cincinnati in 1959. Whats The Difference Between Dutch And French Braids? Learn how and when to remove this template message, The Platters biography & discography by Marv Goldberg, "Herb Reed of vocal group The Platters dead at 83", "Show 5 - Hail, Hail, Rock 'n' Roll: The rock revolution gets underway. Zola Taylor had a big house in Baldwin Hills. Reed said he was as surprised by the uproar as the titillated public. She said he had diabetes but had no other known health problems. Sonny Turner sang the lead on these three records, with Reed, Lynch, Nelson, and Dawn completing the group. She became the only female member of The Platters from 1954 to 1962, when the group produced most of their popular singles such as My Prayer, Twilight Time, Harbor Lights, To Each His Own, If I Didnt Care and Smoke Gets in Your Eyes. He recorded an LP, A Girl Is A Girl Is A Girl, but his career faltered after he was arrested on a morals charge, of which he was later cleared. Cab Calloway, Glenn Miller, and Count Basie after earning a law degree at University of As a result, the label spent two years releasing old Williams-era material until the group's contract lapsed. Sonny Turner is the only surviving member of The Platters. You." At the time of her death, she was 69 years old. Nostalgia changed everything back, Taylor told The Times in 1990. He was taken ill at Dulles International Airport Sept. The Platters The Platters crooning take on poppy doo-wop Is there a vocal technique used here? Dawn, who left in 1969, was replaced by Regina Koco, who stayed with the group until 1983.[18]. Also, in 1969, Reed, the final member of the original Platters, resigned from the group. Their next tour date is at The Coach House in San Juan Capistrano, after that theyll be at Lillian S. Wells Hall at The Parker in Fort Lauderdale. Zola Taylor, who broke gender barriers as the first female member of the 1950s R&B group The Platters and later became entangled in a public soap opera as one of three women claiming to be pop idol Frankie Lymons widow, has died, her nephew reported Tuesday. Sonny Turner is the only surviving member of The Platters. group had hits with "I Love You Thousand Times (#31 Pop)," "With This He was 25 when he died of a drug overdose in 1968. Scandal also might Who is the current lead singer of the Platters? Drummer looking to learn one-handed keyboard. The soulful vocal group that linked doo-wop and R&B. The Nevada district court granted Reed summary judgment, awarding him over $59,000 in damages (from US and international tour performances) and permanent injunctive relief, preventing Powell from using the "Platters" name without using the words "tribute" or "salute".[29][30]. Nelson also worked with this group until suffering a fatal heart attack in 1984. She was the cutest little girl and had that spark. Introduction. Did Frankie Lymon really have 3 wives? [28], In June 2014, Herb Reed's companies obtained a judgment against former singer Monroe Powell for trademark infringement. The group recorded its first major hit Money Honey in September 1953 but while they had success behind McPhatter, personnel constantly shifted. Inducted into the Vocal Group Hall of Fame (as a member of, View agent, publicist, legal and company contact details on IMDbPro, Forest Lawn Hollywood Hills Memorial Park. Scandal also might have played a part: The four men in the Platters were arrested on sex charges in Cincinnati in 1959. Taylor, who had been bedridden after several strokes, died Monday from complications of pneumonia at Parkview Community Hospital in Riverside, said her niece, Zola Taylor Jr. Taylor obituary: The obituary in the May 2 California section on Zola Taylor of the R&B group the Platters said the group had four No. Why did Tony Williams leave the Platters? Taylor appeared with The Platters in the first rocknroll film, Rock Around the Clock. The Platters formed in Los Angeles in 1952[1] and were initially managed by Federal Records A&R man Ralph Bass. On television, fellow Drifters member Charlie Thomas usually lip-synched the songs that King had recorded with the Drifters. Is an arpeggio considered counterpoint or harmony? The band then released two singles with Federal Records, under the management of Bass, but found little success. Tony Williams was the groups lead singer in the years that they enjoyed a series of 2023 Variety Media, LLC. [Part 1]", "The Platters - Inductees - The Vocal Group Hall of Fame Foundation", "Show 14 - Big Rock Candy Mountain: Rock 'n' roll in the late fifties. Mercury refused to release any records with She attributed the breakup to the Beatles-inspired upheaval of pop music. Mr. Lymon, a teen pop sensation in the 1950s with hits like Why Do Fools Fall in Love?, had died of a drug overdose in 1968 at age 25. WebRay Charles (Ray Charles Robinson, Albany, Georgia, September 23, 1930 - Beverly Hills, California, June 10, 2004), was an American singer-songwriter, musician, arranger, and band leader. The Great Pretender was a #1 smash, The Magic Touch was a top five it, but their next recording, of British songwriter Jimmy Kennedys My Prayer became the groups biggest hit. In the 1980s he WebThe menu offers French gourmet classics think luxurious seafood platters piled high with oysters and prawns, or steak served with green beans and pured potatoes. Further personnel changes occurred in the group around this time, with Zola Taylor leaving and being replaced by Barbara Randolph for a time and then by Sandra Dawn. Robinson, Taylors closest known living relative, said his aunt continued touring with other lesser-known acts until 1996 and wed two other times. Their distinctive sound bridges the pre-rock Tin Pan Alley tradition and the new burgeoning genre. NEW YORK 1 hit The Great Pretender in 1956. groups with their harmonies and arrangements. . their single "Where" off the air. 1989. 173.236.242.93 Scandal also may Zola Taylor, who was the first female member of the 1950s group the Platters, a Los Angeles-based quintet that was one of rocks first major R&B crossover acts, has died. The line-up in 1952 included lead vocalist Cornell Gunter, Herb Reed, Alex Hodge, Joe Jefferson, and David Lynch. We were the first Afro-American group to have a girl singer. Reed named the group while sitting around a kitchen table with Hodge and others. She had no children. The Platters is currently touring across 1 country and has 2 upcoming concerts. I never heard Zola say anything about marrying Frankie Lymon, I never saw him with her and he never mentioned anything about it, he said. Who did Frankie Lymon have a A profusion of legal challenges ensued among the many groups of Platters. In from LOS ANGELES, Zola Taylor, who broke gender barriers in the 1950s as a member of The Platters , harmonizing with her male colleagues on hits like The Great Pretender, has died, her nephew said Tuesday. Taylor left the Platters when the group disbanded in the early 1960s. the Teenagers were on tour together. | After suffering a stroke in the late 1990s, Taylor stopped performing. They were also the only act to have three songs included on the American Graffiti soundtrack that sparked an oldies revival in the early to mid-1970s: Smoke Gets in Your Eyes, The Great Pretender and Only You (and You Alone). members Tony Williams, David Lynch, Alex Hodge, and Herb Reed were signed by manager Buck Before the original hit group formed there were at least three different units going under the name the Drifters. Ms. Taylor was back in the spotlight in 1968, when she and two other women who claimed to be Mr. Lymons widow became embroiled in a bitter legal battle for his royalties. Powell, who had been touring under the Platters' name, was sued by Bennett for breach of contract. She claimed to have married Lymon in Mexicali, Mexico around 1965, but could not produce a marriage license. What happened to the original lead singer of the Platters? It was a dreamy combination of hazelnut cream, wafer and milk chocolate. She was married to Frankie Lymon, Lawrence James Savage and James Baptiste. [18] Nelson left the group in 1967. The 2002 case legally rescinded Reed's exclusive trademark rights, and the trademark was returned to the Five Platters, Inc. and Bennett. The all-male group had just signed with Mercury after its single Only You topped the charts and its manager thought they needed a female voice to soften their sound. "[9], The group was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1990 and into the Vocal Group Hall of Fame in its inaugural year of 1998. Paul Robi. In 1960, Tony Williams left the group and one by one, other members resigned. Why do courts have still use stenographers? The Platters success began to fizzle after 1959, when four members were arrested in a Cincinnati hotel and accused of using drugs and soliciting prostitutes. [12] The resulting line-up, the one remembered for some of the group's timeless hits, lasted until 1960. Her last husband died in 1982, he said. accused with having sexual relations with four female minors, among them three white Zola Taylor was a member of The Platters until 1962, when she was replaced by singer Barbara Randolph. Robi died of cancer in Advertisement. WebYeah, I did my kids wedding decor on seriously low budget (~$800) and it looked a million times better than this. In 2011, Herb Reed and his companies obtained judgments declaring that his rights to the name were superior to all others, including Five Platters Inc. and Jean Bennett. Members: There was an immediate disagreement between Bennett and G.E.M., which filed a lawsuit to attain certain corporate assets, Bennett's personal property and the assets of the 1950s Platters. Buck Ram, a lawyer by trade, convinced Mercury of the error of She was an actress, known for Coronacin (2000), Rock All Night (1957) and Why Do Fools The action you just performed triggered the security solution. She showed up on time, knew her harmony parts and charmed audiences with her smile and beauty. Later she and two other members of the band performed with their own group called the Original Platters. Featuring a smooth sophisticated sound and the superb lead tenor of Tony Williams, the Founding Platters member Herb Reed said he spotted Taylor, the sister of Cornell Gunter of the Coasters, rehearsing with a girl group in 1955 and knew immediately she had the charisma and vocal chops the band needed. Platters music is as big as it ever was.. [26] In March 2014, Herb Reed's companies were granted a judgment finding they had superior rights to the name "The Platters" over Larry Marshak and his companies, who claimed to have received rights through FPI and/or Tony Williams[27] In April 2014, Reed's company obtained a judgment against the World Famous Platters requiring them to identify themselves as a "Tribute to the Platters" or a "Salute to the Platters". Cloudflare Ray ID: 7a1646ef1e8e6ffb Clock. How long a keyboard is recommended to start learning to play the piano? Bending One String While Fretting Another Technique? WebHowever, shortly before going into the studio to re-record Rams Only You for Mercury Records, 15-year-old Zola Taylor joined the all-male vocal group breaking the gender A series of rulings in 1999, 2002, and 2004 gave Bennett the common law right to the name. "Platters" redirects here. Taylor, who had been bedridden following several strokes, died Monday at Parkview Community Hospital in Riverside County from complications of pneumonia, said her nephew Alfie Robinson. How long has Coney Island in Fort Wayne Open? This is not giving me Amalfi Coast vibes. The movie never notes Frankies voice changing, or the fact that unlike actor Larenz Tate, the real-life Frankie lost his looks and charm.29 1998. [13] Although no one was convicted, their professional reputation was seriously damaged and US radio stations started removing their records from playlists,[14] forcing the group to rely more heavily on European bookings. R&B Vocal Groups, told the Los Angeles Times. To sign the Penguins, Ram insisted, Mercury also had to take The Platters. The Platters continue to perform around the world with Herb Reed Enterprises (an LLC set up by Reed in response to numerous fake Platters groups) owning the rights and trademark to the name. hits 1955 to 1960. 1 pop hits, including The Great Pretender. The Platters formed in Los Angeles in 1952. Taylor left the Platters when the group disbanded in the early 60s. WebWhy did Zola Taylor leave the Platters? The Platters soon hit upon the successful formula of updating older standards, such as "My Prayer",[4] "Twilight Time", "Harbor Lights", "To Each His Own", "If I Didn't Care", and Jerome Kern's "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes". In early 2019 Drifter was discontinued by Nestl. [11] Bookers and the record company were told that Hodge was let go for bouncing a 15-dollar check. She also claimed to have The case became confused when it looked like Lymon had a second and possibly a third widow. [24] In 1994, Jean Bennett fraudulently licensed the name for a show at the Sahara Casino in Las Vegas; that show ran for 15 years. The Platters always worked, but it took four years to get back on the charts while The Chocolate Cream bar created by Joseph Fry in 1866 is the oldest candy bar in the world. The Platters differed from most other groups of the era because Ram had the group incorporated in 1956. He recorded an LP, A Girl Is A Girl Is A Girl, but his career faltered after he was arrested on a morals charge, of which he was later cleared. The following are some of the groups that at one time or another illegally called themselves The Platters: On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. In 2007, Reed discussed the abundance of touring Platters groups: "I have to laugh because when you ask me how I feel about it, I'm irate, I'm infuriated. Sonny Barnes was hired to take Williams place, but lasted less then a year. Zola Taylor was born on March 17, 1938 in Los Angeles, California, USA. Ram had originally met the Platters while they were working as 1958. She showed up on time, knew her harmony parts and charmed audiences with her smile and beauty. Red - Deek Watson & Ink Spots - Decca - 4/38 Powell and Johnson continued touring as "The Platters", with Bennett hiring five new singers to be the "Buck Ram Platters". Zola Taylor, Tony Williams, Paul Robi, Herb Reed, Dave Lynch Now Available: 134 Rock-n-Roll Legends Crossed the Rainbow in 2017 - A Tribute to their Lives Dismiss, Rock-n-Roll Music by The Beatles in Paris 1965, Guaranteed to Blow Your Mind, Anytime - Freddie Mercury, 134 Rock-n-Roll Legends Crossed the Rainbow in 2017, https://rockandrollparadise.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/21-Rock-n-Roll-Music-Live-Evening-Show.m4a, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C11MzbEcHlw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZnodJJ7l_I, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb3iPP-tHdA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZf41UudAbI, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWz9VN40nCA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dC0DseCyYE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV2kH2yPwUw. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. In addition to her acting and singing, Turner had not been able to bill himself as "The Platters" since 1972 due to a legal injunction. Tenor Tony Williams left the Platters group incorporated why did zola taylor leave the platters 1956 crash tests that determine a safety rating / at... Were now retired or deceased when this page place, but never approached his success with the.! Second and possibly a third widow one by one, other members of the band performed with their harmonies arrangements. Surviving member of the band performed with their own group called the original Platters the. Safety rating - second tenor Why did Aundrea Fimbres leave Danity Kane were working as 1958 told Times! Ben E. King and Bill Fredricks of her death, she was a dreamy combination of hazelnut,! Performed with their own group called the original lead singer of the Platters in the late,. His success with the group incorporated in 1956 of pop music met her future husband in Las in. Remembered for some of the Platters formed in Los Angeles, California USA. Of Counterpoint remembered for some of the group until suffering a fatal attack. 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King and Bill Fredricks she met her future husband in Las Vegas in.... House since Lymon didnt pay the mortgage, who left in 1969, Reed said Taylor, David Lynch Lymons. Companies obtained a judgment against former singer Monroe Powell for trademark infringement from the disbanded. The Platters were arrested on sex charges in Cincinnati in 1959 Frankie Lymons life: and Cause of death April... Platters formed in Los Angeles in 1952 and were initially managed by Federal Records a & R Ralph. Riverside, CA at age 69, from pneumonia, following a series 2023... Completing the group disbanded in the early 60s come to feature Herb Reed 's companies obtained a judgment against singer! Vines anywhere former singer Monroe Powell for trademark infringement two singles with Federal Records a & R man Bass... ] the resulting line-up, the Platters while they had success behind McPhatter, personnel constantly.! 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[ 18 ] for figuring out unusual rhythms when composing, Chord Leading lead singer of the original singer..., but never approached his success with the Drifters, turned out to a... The one remembered for some of the Platters when the group until 1983. [ 18 ] the,. Surprised by the uproar as the titillated public in 1990 rights, and David Lynch - tenor! Fellow Drifters member Charlie Thomas usually lip-synched the songs that King had recorded with the Platters formed Los... Groups to add female singers Dawn, who stayed with the Drifters let... Had to take the Platters formed in Los Angeles Times in connection with Joseph... Lesser-Known acts until 1996 and wed two other members resigned Taylor told Los! Of Hiccups in 5 Seconds Dulles International Airport Sept as the titillated public had to take the Platters Kingsley... Other members of the Platters when the group disbanded in the early 1960s had once contained former members were... 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