And they aint all wrong. As for your other points, Matt Chandlers church eventually acted only after a number of Christian magazines and websites had highlighted their initial inaction. Thanks for this. Im afraid your post is a classic example of taking a bible verse out of context and using it, whether ignorantly or deliberately to defend sin. "[34] Regarding eternal security, he states, "It should never be presented merely as a matter of being once saved, always savedwith no regard for what you believe or do. How John MacArthur loves the Bible but not his neighbor. This following sermon was full of what can only be called psychobabble. One expression of faith creates refugees; the other resettles them. Tim Keller as an anti-Christian preacher is nonsense.it is the kind of irrational ranting legalism that I was mentioning at the beginning.very very sad that you endorse it! I might write a review later but the book is dreadful Mark Driscoll and Tim Keller, for example, are frequently careless and irreverent in the way they use Scripture. Really? You then accused me of muddying the waters by dropping in a bit of juicy gossip. [41] MacArthur compared the assertion that sexual orientation is a born trait to a hypothetical bank robber's protestation, "I keep robbing banks, but I'm a robber. We even had the background high pitched sentimental organ music towards the end as he told the (with a tear in his eye) the sad story of his dad, especially when he turned up to hear his son preach for 24 hours to mark the publication of his latest book. In the sermon above Stephen lets out a wee quip at the beginning when responding to some criticism go start your own church. Please dont feel sad that someone disagrees with you. [14] In 1986, he was made President of the new Master's Seminary. MacArthur told her she needed to model for her children how to "suffer for Jesus" by enduring David's abuse. A point you also mentioned. Having said that I followed the mega church scene in the USA I was aware of what was going on in Dallas and in other places too. Chandler only eventually took action as the wheels were about to fall off the Mars Hill bus and, sadly, only when great damage had already been done to the body of Christ. Thanks again, Your email address will not be published. More here: https://mrayton.wordpress.com/tag/john-macarthur/, Thanks very helpfulalthough I think that the money and the me focus are a key part of the false teaching. I would urge you to reread the comments by G White and your own responses to them before prayerfully replying. The church that is spending $130 million on redoing its downtown campus? Reiterating his stance on 1 Timothy 2:12, he went on to state, "There is no case that can be made biblically for a woman preacher. As a preliminary observation, there is no name calling. It is the Bible watered down by a mixture of Waltonesque homespun wisdom, pop psychology, stand up comedy and an unhealthy doze of how to missiology. But I find it astonishing that you cite it here in a massive church (and smaller churches) there are bound to be people who are sex abusers and the church will not always handle that well. "[37], MacArthur is an outspoken critic of same-sex marriage, the ordination of women, the Roman Catholic Church, and the social justice movement. I'm a bank robber. Outwith a Southern US culture it makes no sense and Im not sure that for many of my Southern friends it makes any sense either. Your other comments were directly applied to the Megachurch movement I follow the goings-on of the mega church para church neocalvinist movement (call it what you will) in the USA and am frequently astounded by their antics. Again I am glad that you were not criticising the whole mega church movement (although I am sure you will understand why your initial post can be read that way).which megachurches are you happy with? It has that effect on people to go from 14 to 20,000 so go sit underneath the ministry until you can see what he sees. And the notion that radical Islam is going to defeat the gospel is just as daft. 38, 31-32). If I was a young Christian I know I could have easily been swept along with this stuff it seems such an attractive message, and he is such an attractive man. The screenshot below is from page 4 of Elevation Church's helpful Spontaneous Baptism How To Guide. Los Angeles County had sued the church and its pastor, John MacArthur, last August after officials said he had he opened the church and held a large indoor worship service with unmasked attendees . Do we really believe that the Holy Spirit is incapable of working, without us chiding things along? So when I see money, resources and people being diverted into what appear to be personal vanity projects, branding and corporate Christianity, I weep, am angry and cry out to the Lord. Stay informed with the latest from CBN News delivered to your inbox. He's got a long history as a respected evangelical theologian and preacher, but has made headlines more often in recent months for illegally flouting COVID-19 . Do they not see the danger of this? And if the thousands of baptisms represent thousands of people coming to Christ, how could one not rejoice? MacArthur responded "unqualified" and proceeded to argue that Furtick, pastor of Elevation Church, was not qualified, by Biblical standards, to be a pastor. Perhaps then a mature and open discussion could then take place. [6] During a 1979 interview, Pastor MacArthur stated he is "distantly related to General Douglas MacArthur." And what is your position, from Scripture, on the subject? Join us on Sundays for a full day of teaching, preaching, music, and fellowship. I know in theory you agree with He must increase, I must decrease as do I. In case theology and ecclesiology sounds almost too technical and dulljust remember we are talking about who is God, and what is his church? I'm a bank robber."[41]. You are aware of them as you demonstrated when writing about Mr Furtick. David, once again you are making assertions that do not stand scrutiny. The truth be told the Bible never once says it is wrong to have money or stuff. By the way I got your recommended book. Lumping every mega church together is not a healthy thing to do. It is sometimes quite difficult to know how to answer you because of the way in which you misrepresent what is being said. Finally, I just checked my Amazon app and what do you know, the book I mentioned is still for sale at 3.50 and there are 8 copies left. But it takes a lot of hard work, time, and money to do what we do. "[43] Moore responded to this stance by stating on her Twitter account, "I did not surrender to a calling of man when I was 18 years old. MacArthur denied the charge, as attested on two tapes recorded in 1989 when he was asked to reason together with the IFCA man.[35], MacArthur advocates Young Earth creationism in his book The Battle For the Beginning (2001), and in his sermons. G White this is the mega church you are setting up as an example in opposition to Matt Chandler? He did not say Timothy Keller is an anti-Christian preacher. Eventually, all lawsuits were settled out of court with the County of Los Angeles and the State of California paying $400,000 each to Grace Community Church. ON the other hand you seem to be very quick to hand out your tongue lashing arrogance and childishness. Whites equation of Chandler with Furtick being one such example, your comparison of Matt Chandler with Scott McKenna being another. False teachers and those who allow the Word of God to be compromised are like a cancer in the church; some who preach flat out heresy are like the aggressive cancer and are easy to spot quickly but others who compromise a bit here and turn a blind eye there are akin to the slow growing tumour thats often not picked up until great damage is done. Your reply was typical of the kind of legalistic posts which I regularly get sent. Follow TheWeeFlea.com on WordPress.com Despite the considerable influence that they all had, they chose instead to publically endorse him. Matt Chandler is an excellent example of how the gospel should be preached I cant comment on his lifestyle because I dont know it do you? But like John Flavel I regard as a pretty close second the threat of disunity in the body of Christ not least that caused by those who go around unjustly and wrongly accusing others of false teaching. What a waste of a fantastic talent. Firstly in the teaching. John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. (born June 19, 1939) is an American Protestant pastor and author known for his internationally syndicated Christian teaching radio and television program Grace to You. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Because Elevation Church certainly dont want to. He argues that "the battle for the beginning is ultimately a battle between two mutually exclusive faiths faith in Scripture versus faith in anti-theistic hypotheses. 2) Its also not advisable as someone who professes to be a Christian and follow Christ to swear. Whether you are a legalist or not I dont know. "[26] He has a complementarian view on gender roles and considers that the Bible forbids women to preach to men or to exercise authority over men in churches, and he believes that the Biblical roles of elder and pastor are restricted to men. And whilst there are some who have a tremendously positive influence, I suspect that the majority do more harm than good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3BN1lStbIw. Given that is neither what I wrote, nor what I think. We are pleased to report that he is doing well," Grace Community Church wrote Monday on their website. . The one I mentioned is a paperback and cost 3.50. MacArthur was also given an honorary degree from Talbot Theological Seminary (Doctor of Divinity, 1977) and from Grace Graduate School (1976). 2) I challenge you to provide some evidence for that statement and question whether you were just against mega churches per se. I think it is a good thing that a church grows within a decade from a hundred to 20,000 people and I would love that to happen in Dundee, or Edinburgh. Please do not excuse sin and blasphemy. G White had stated that Matt Chandler was not a good example of teaching or living and then went on to pass on gossip about a particular discipline case in the Village Church. It is a serious breach of the ninth commandment to defame someone in this manner. It never occurs to me for a second to not fulfill it. So I was pleased to see the topic addressed here, particularly as there is another story breaking about Mr Furtick in North Carolina even as I write this. Their influence has been growing and recently . However the issue that really gets to me is the money one. This is way more than urging caution, as you later suggested. Elevation Church were accused of getting volunteers to come forward during the spontaneous baptism services, in order to encourage others to get up out of their seats. yes it was dishonest of you to misrepresent my position as some pastors are untouchable. Fox News Flash top headlines are here. Please check your information and try again or call us at 1-800-759-0700. Really? Last year, when far-reaching government restrictions were put in place, the megachurch continued holding indoor worship services despite bans on such gatherings. "Because ours is such a free and prosperous society; it is easier for Christians to feel secure by presuming on instead of depending on God's grace." - John MacArthur. pokmon the series xyz. Elevation Church were accused of getting 'volunteers' to come forward during the 'spontaneous' baptism services, in order to encourage others to get up out of their seats. L ast week, John MacArthur celebrated 50 years in the pastorate at a conference at his congregation Grace Community Church. Im not sure that things work in quite the same way in the US. You equate him with the false teaching of Furtick and Elevation Church. However I dont think it is wise or correct to take the givings of the Lords people to make oneself a millionaire actually that is sinful. (Genaro Molina / Los Angeles Times via Getty Images), Even as the pastor was sick, the church elder remained upbeat, adding, "Its pretty pretty amazing we have guys with sermons in their Bibles wherever you go and so Mikes going to be here.". I have read only one or two books by John Piper and Timothy Keller and dont really know much about them. Anyone at least you have persuaded me to read the book I hope it is not a waste of good time! Its not the unadulterated Word of God for our generation. I made no comment on how Matt Chandler lives as a Christian. Why do you think that that was disgraceful etc but G Whites bracketing of Furtick with Chandler was not? They do things right. David, you use your blog to write some really encouraging and courageous articles for which Im very grateful. Has First Dallas never handled any controversy or discipline case wrong? Mutual Fund and ETF data provided by Refinitiv Lipper. Grace Community Church, home to pastor-teacher John MacArthur, is located in Sun Valley, California and has been faithfully proclaiming God's Word since 1956. Some are good, some are bad. [9] In 1963, he was granted a Masters of Divinity from the Bible Institute of Los Angeles's new Talbot Theological Seminary, in La Mirada, California, with honors. Because he is a pastor? Help us continue to be a voice for truth in the media by supporting CBN News for as little as $1. The digressive discussion of church trappings in some ways diminishes the toxic nature of this actual ministry content its danger isnt in size or wealth or me focus, it is in the false gospel it promotes he is not qualified to preach. So far there has been no evidence given for assertion. John MacArthur and the folks from Grace to You (GTY) have done the body of Christ a great service by continually warning Christianity against the growing dangers within the Charismatic movement. Is this success? Some might expect be to be critical of the entertainment Hillsong style worship and the whole professional stage go that goes along with it. The entire message was based around how God can meet all MY needs. (2Tim. I did read your comments. He has been the pastor of Grace Community Church, a non-denominational church in Sun Valley, California since February 9, 1969. Im afraid that the influence of the US mega churches such as Elevation is felt throughout the world. (You can read the follow up five years later! [27][28][29], MacArthur describes himself as a "leaky dispensationalist. MacArthur told church members ahead of his sermon that many people contracted COVID and it probably went through our church in maybe December or January. The pastor said he and his wife, Patricia, enjoyed our own bout with COVID for about a week and a half.. Your remarks were and continue to be misrepresentative, deceitful and sly. The point I made about Matt Chandler himself is that it took the pressure from outside his church to galvanise him into doing something. As I trust that you would not deliberately bear false witness against me, can I ask that, in future, you read any comment very carefully before making such serious accusations? And I wasnt using any of the debating society tricks of tu quoque and ad hominem in anything that I said. MacArthur responded, "Go home." (John MacArthur). I am happy though if you wish to withdraw your initial comments. I will always call that out, and I refuse to be intimidated or bullied by those who just cry foul or moan about not being nice. IN terms of his preaching we do disagree. . A prominent elder at John MacArthur's Grace Community Church (GCC) has resigned, stating in email leaked to The Roys Report that his "conscience and convictions" were not aligned with other GCC elders. And if you want to learn of the dangers of this movement I would recommend that you read The New Calvinists: Changing The Gospel by E S Williams. Oh and sorry about the ironic and sarky remark about being mature enough for you! To ignore its message is to snub that which the Holy Spirit inspired. I have no idea if you are particularly legalistic or not but the type of comments you were making, most certainly are. Despite concern from church members, Grace Community Church has assured the public that MacArthur is recovering and doing better. I found helpful most of what he said and disagreed with a few things. You also muddied the waters by dropping in a juicy wee bit of gossip about a child sex abuse scandal. what evidence do you have for that?). Would you add John Piper, Tim Keller and Alaister Begg to your bonfire? He has misgivings about Neo-Calvinism and he gave his reasons for those misgivings. Doubtless it was intended as a joke but I dont think taking a salary of millions more than is necessary to live, work and provide for ones family, is a joke especially when there are hungry children, and many hungry for the Word, who do not receive it because of lack of money. Our statement: pic.twitter.com/Rin5W7eA8x, Jenna Ellis (@JennaEllisEsq) August 31, 2021. In 2012, at the annual Shepherd's Conference, MacArthur was participating in a word association questionnaire when the moderator gave the name "Steven Furtick." Powered and implemented by FactSet Digital Solutions. Chandler, a Reformed evangelical pastor, spoke as a guest speaker at Elevation last Friday, the third night of the Code Orange Revival. Ward's father, John Tucker, was also a member of the church who had been informed . Pastor John MacArthur preaches at Grace Community Church in Los Angeles. He argued at the time that such mandates violated constitutionally protected religious liberties. all Christians are the same etc. In 2019, at the Truth Matters Conference, during another word association questionnaire, MacArthur was given the prompt "Beth Moore". Market data provided by Factset. I will reply to them briefly. No-one can find out what Pastor Stephen is paid, although it is decided by a committee of out of town pastors/advisors (who are probably on the same arrangement). [13] In 1985, MacArthur was made President of Los Angeles Baptist College, now The Master's University, a four-year Christian liberal-arts college. Check out what's clicking on Foxnews.com. issued his own declaration against the county, John MacArthur Warns Christians to Stop Making 'Alliances With Satan' in Remarks on Religious Liberty, Falsely Accused: John MacArthur's Grace Community Church 'Cleared of COVID-19 Outbreak', but Battle Rages On, 'It's Tyranny': Pastor MacArthur Will Get His Day in Court, Fighting CA Shutdown of Churches, Historic Win: John MacArthur Claims Victory in Lawsuit Over Church Restrictions, After Asbury Shutters Revival Services, Outpouring Moved to Lexington Arena: See Full Video Here, 'I Prayed in the Name of Jesus, and He Answered': Heroes Rescue 17,000 While 'Saving Aziz' in Afghanistan. All I would say is that there was no irrational, ranting, preaching anywhere in it. 2) There are inherent dangers in mega churches which some of your other contributors have highlighted. Its not that difficult to grow large congregations which teach heresy if you think size is an indication of faithfulness then why are you not a Muslim, a Mormon or a Moonie?! I kind of dreaded this type of response. 3) You respond by providing no evidence and say that you are not against mega churches. Paul Guay was a pastor at John MacArthur's Grace Community Church (GCC) who had been molesting his daughter, Wendy since at least 1979. You state, Name calling really doesnt constitute argument does it? and yet you have no problem with calling me dishonest. There are doubtless many things wrong with Chandler (hes a Baptist for a start!) Lets put it this way- if you are buying a $1.8 million home you aint exactly of the take no purse school of ministry! http://religionnews.com/2016/05/11/why-pastor-steven-furtick-skirts-scandalous-questions/. It is no improvement on, or explanation of, the Word of God. Furtick preaches a different gospel. Radio Scotland Abortion Debate Edited Highlights, https://theweeflea.com/2020/04/22/return-to-elevation/), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3BN1lStbIw, http://thewartburgwatch.com/?s=Matt+chandler&x=0&y=0, http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Calvinists-ES-Williams/dp/1908919329/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=vvjMUrPUfC4&app=desktop, https://mrayton.wordpress.com/tag/john-macarthur/, Elevation Church The Good, The Bad and the Ugly, Most Read Wee Flea Articles in 2017 THE BLOG OF DAVID ROBERTSON. Its a sad fact that this nonsense is already here in Scotland supported by the new breed of self appointed apostles and prophets. It was not an accusation, nor an attack. (function(d){var f = d.getElementsByTagName('SCRIPT')[0], p = d.createElement('SCRIPT');p.type = 'text/javascript';p.async = true;p.src = '//widgets.wp.com/platform.js';f.parentNode.insertBefore(p,f);}(document)); on Elevation Church The Good, The Bad and the Ugly. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, This was sourced through interviews with ex-Grace Community Church Elder Hohn Cho. 2023 The Christian Broadcasting Network, Inc., A nonprofit 501 (c)(3) Charitable Organization. This photo posted to Twitter by Phil Johnson shows a full sanctuary at Grace Church on Sunday, July 26, 2020. If he has lots of money good for him, if he has a nice home- good for him. If you want an alternative from another megachurch pastor, then listen to this from Matt Chandler preached at Elevation (I think it was not actually posted at the time because it upset people but I may be wrong). Cho resigned the next day. Then you will remember your evil ways and your wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. Dear David, However, I was somewhat alarmed by the endorsement of Matt Chandler as a good example of how the gospel should be preached and lived. Why would you equate Chandler with Furtick, but First is ok? complete with standing ovation. John MacArthur, the pastor of California's Grace Community Church, delivers a sermon to his congregation, January 2021. John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. (born June 19, 1939) is an American Protestant pastor and author known for his internationally syndicated Christian teaching radio and television program Grace to You. MacArthur, 83, was preaching Sunday service earlier this week when he reportedly said he felt ill. You can find the details here. Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. (What a great sales pitch why dont you try it next time David I will even make the trip to Dundee to hear you). Elevation Church's revival is seeing some theological controversy. You've successfully subscribed to this newsletter! You rightly speak out against the Scott McKennas of this world but you seem to have a blind spot where certain pastors are concerned. Stephen Furtick is his own brand and it seems it is a brand that sells well and pays well. Thats hypocrisy, and no, that doesnt constitute name calling. Where is the blessed self-forgetfulness? [1] He has been the pastor of Grace Community Church, a non-denominational church in Sun Valley, California since February 9, 1969. Sorry David, we must be talking about different books. There is nothing more basic than these. For more information about the Church Finder, read our Statement of Purpose.. The southern baptist convention of which he has been a part has distanced themselves from his ministry in the past year. John MacArthur is wrong about so much more than keeping women in abusive marriages. Staff Pastor Tom Patton delivered the sermon in MacArthurs stead, telling churchgoers the senior minister was resting., ***As the number of voices facing big-tech censorship continues to grow, please sign up forFaithwires daily newsletterand download theCBN News app, to stay up-to-date with the latest news from a distinctly Christian perspective.***. If you stop and think about what you have written you will I hope grasp what is wrong with it. Cho brought letters to the elders and MacArthur who ultimately told him he needed to "walk back" his findings if he wanted to remain an elder. If we believe that the message in our books is from God, and we feel it so strongly, then we dont really need to promote it, do we? Pastor / Teacher. John MacArthur - Jr. Church and Steven Furtick Jamie A 154 subscribers Subscribe 214K views 7 years ago Fun little clips I put together to give an example of what Dr. MacArthur was speaking on.. Also available on most smart TVs and streaming services. Then there is the whole question of what the church is about. The staff expected to have their concerns heard andconsidered. Its also a nasty wee trick to complain of someone remarks as being provocative, misleading and snide. lq mk If the cap fits.on the other hand if it doesnt then I accept your apology! In 1960, after a year off, he was accepted to the Free Methodist Churchs Los Angeles Pacific College, where in his senior year he observed two games of football, going on field once for one play (see 1962 yearbook statistics). [10], While at Bob Jones University in South Carolina, MacArthurs father recruited him to the Voice of Calvary singing quartet, often broadcast on Christian radio in Southern California. If you were not speaking about Chandler then why write it here? [18] He believes that scripture is inerrant and infallible because it is "the Word of God" and that God cannot lie. Mike no one is saying that a pastor should be poor. The remarks immediately following that statement seem to suggest that you are and illustrate the way in which you denigrate those with whom you disagree. IMHO he totally manipulated the emotions of his audience and used the scriptures in an inappropriate way. And there are some well-liked denominations and networks of churches on Facebook pages too: john macarthur on elevation church. John MacArthur is the pastor-teacher of Grace Community Church, as well as an author, conference speaker, chancellor of The Master's University and Seminary, and featured teacher with the Grace to You media ministry. John MacArthur, pastor of the popular Grace Community megachurch, is recovering from a sudden onset of illness. To this end he cites the biblical passage of 1 Timothy 2:11-12. You can follow him on Twitter @timothynerozzi and can email him at timothy.nerozzi@fox.com, Get all the stories you need-to-know from the most powerful name in news delivered first thing every morning to your inbox. Why shouldnt he? Timothy Nerozzi is a writer for Fox News Digital. As he walked across the stage July 26 to the large, wooden pulpit, the auditorium that seats 3,500 people was filled with non-masked, non-socially distanced conservative . Im sorry, but I didnt state that I had written to you in love, though I did try very hard to temper my comment to you. Hardly the same as Furticks message! Earlier this year his church was embroiled in a scandal over their handling of a child sexual abuse case. Googling information about his ministry will provide a number of discussions of his content. As for his preaching, we will disagree. Either way the theory that a pastor should be poor is ignorant. Not on Amazon it aint! I surrendered to a calling of God. Paragraph. John MacArthur was able to summarize Furtick as a minister with one word: unqualified. (Ezek. David, you seem so eager to fire off your stock answers and insults that it sometimes appears that you havent properly read the comments first. Jenna Ellis,the churchs attorney,tweeted about the settlement. Name calling really doesnt constitute argument does it? Discussions of his audience and used the scriptures in an inappropriate way child sex abuse scandal positive! What we do protected religious liberties either way the theory that a pastor should be poor whole question of can... Our generation we really believe that the Holy Spirit inspired far there has been the pastor said he his! Position as some pastors are untouchable help us continue to be a Christian himself. Are setting up as an example in opposition to Matt Chandler not scrutiny... That really gets to me for a second to not fulfill it muddying! Some criticism go start your own church at the time that such mandates violated protected. 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